University of Texas at San Antonio Archives and Special Collections
MS 315. Veterans History Project
Trinidad Garcia Transcript, March 24, 2008
BEGIN SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE
Tellez: Today’s date is March 24, 2008. My name is Lisa Tellez and today I will be interviewing Trinidad Garcia. The interview is taking place at the History and Research Center at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. Also in attendance is Maryland Jones. Ms. Garcia, do I have your permission to record this interview today?
Garcia: Yes
Tellez: Okay. Alright, Ms. Garcia, let’s start out first with some basic questions. When were you born?
Garcia: May the thirty-first, 1920.
Tellez: Where were you born?
Garcia: Galveston, Texas.
Tellez: Okay, and where did you spend most of your life when you were growing up, ws it in Galveston, or did you move?
Garcia: Oh, my father was a wondering man. We lived in Port Arthur, Beaumont, Galveston and I can’t think of the name of that little town, there’s another little town that we— but we always ended up back on the coast.
Tellez: I see. Okay, and now we’re going to be discussing today mainly your activities in the Army Air Corps. How old were you when you joined the Army Air Corps?
Garcia: Twenty-one years old.
Tellez: And what made you decide to do that?
Garcia: Patriotism. I couldn’t go to school. I wanted to go to school to work for the war department, but [I had] no money. So— And then I couldn’t get a job very well because even though I had finished school—but at the same time, it was a— You know, in those days Mexican-Americans, [we] had to really suffer to get [things]. You know, you had to have someone recommend you or something in order to get a good job. Or, I could get a job scrubbing floors, but I didn’t want to scrub floors. I wanted to, well, learn and go and do things, you know. That was my goal.
Tellez: Okay, you wanted the same shot as everyone else. Okay, and how did your parents feel about you deciding to join the military? MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 2
Garcia: That’s a good one. My mother did not approve—definitely [did] not approve. My father, he said, ―Well, it’s your life.‖ So I told my mother, I says, ―I gotta do something. I can’t just work filing papers in an office, or stuff like that.‖ So, I joined. But, oh, you should have seen the scandal in my mother’s family. In those days they said that those who joined the service— You see, my grandfather had been [accepted] with the federal Army in Mexico, and that’s why they came forward in 1910 when the [Mexican] Revolution started down there. And so, when they got first to Eagle Pass, the women that supposedly went with the military were more or less to give a man pleasures.
Tellez: Well, go into that a little bit more.
Garcia: Well, they quit talking to me—my uncles and cousins. I had cousins [who had] already joined the war, because the war had started in 1941, you know. So they were– and they themselves told me that I was going to be a– [that I would] work for pleasures of men and all that—that they didn’t— But I showed them. It came out in the paper, you know, what you would do if they joined the service and it would be good, you know.
Tellez: So, people basically believed that that’s what they would do with women in the military? The purpose they would serve?
Garcia: Yes.
Tellez: Okay. Wow.
Garcia: So, I made up my mind, I wasn’t going to stay home, I was going to go. So, I submitted my paper. I went down to the recruiting station, you know, and they looked at me and the first thing the guy says, he says, ―You know, your race of people don’t believe in women in the military.‖ I says, ―Sir, I’m an American.‖ So he signed me up, and on September the 11th, 1942, my papers came for me to report in two weeks to Fort Des Moines, Iowa and that they would send me the ticket and train-fare and the whole works. And so, I got ready. I mean I was leaving! So, the day that I was supposed to leave I told my mother, I says, ―Are you going to the station with me?‖ You know, because, she had given me money for carfare, for streetcar fare, you know. I says, ―Well, aren’t you coming with me?‖ And so my father told her to go with me, you know. So, we went to the train station and there were some other girls there, you know. And of course their parents were there with them, but only my mother were there. I didn’t have a cent, so she gave me fifty cents! [laughter] So, I left Galveston with fifty cents in my pocket. But, anyway.
Tellez: Wow. Weren’t you afraid?
Garcia: Yes! Oh yes, I didn’t know what I was getting into, but I asked God to help me. You know, I just— In those days I used to be very religious. I’m religious now, but not as much as I was then. So, I arrived at Fort Des Moines. It was cold. Man, it was cold! So, after that, I begin to get used to the weather and the training and people yelling at me. We had female and male sergeants. There were people who had been in academies who knew about the rules and regulations of military, so they told me, but I doubt it!
Tellez: Well, when you left, were you— When you first went in to the service, were you living in Galveston at that point? MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 3
Garcia: At that time, yes. Oh, at Fort Des Moines, Iowa, they had converted stables into dormitories for the females so the soldiers that would talk to us, you know, would say ―how’re the horses doing?‖ We had, I think, two and a half months training. They taught us everything—all about— Everything that they teach the men, you know, would be, except— Oh, they even gave us familiarization with weapons. That scared the liver out of me! I was afraid I was going to turn and kill somebody! [laughter] But, no, we were— It was interesting. We lived in barracks—two-tier barracks. And I was a little overweight. I think I weighed 130 pounds then, but compared to the other women, you know. Oh, we had some women that were real skinny, you know! And they wanted to give me an upper bunk. I was scared, so I had to tell the sergeant that I was scared and oh, I wish I hadn’t told her in front of everybody because [they would say], ―How’s scaredy cat today?‖ That’s what they used to say! But I got a lower bunk, though, because I told them that I would fall. I don’t know, I was just scared, that’s all.
Tellez: Now, how did the— Was there a strong sense of camaraderie between the women?
Garcia: Oh, in a way, yes. You see, I was assigned to a platoon where there were a lot of women from the North, and they were secretaries, and supposedly, according to them, they were all big shots, you know. They would ask me what did I do, [and] I would always say, ―I’m the type that pushes the pencil and files your papers! That’s all I’ve been doing, you know.‖
Tellez: Now, did you experience racism in the military, because I know you experienced sexism, and so you know, with the Latinas or African-Americans, you always had that double—
Garcia: I was the only Mexican-American in that whole squadron. And so, there was a lot of Italian girls. I was surprised because, you know, Italians, they keep their daughters behind closed doors. And of course, the big women—and by that I mean the women who had degrees and were somebody—you know, according to them—they were fairly nice. They were always interested to me—just what did I eat at home, and what did I do, and did I have a— Oh, what do you call those capes the Mexican people use?
Tellez: The Pancho.
Garcia: Yeah! [laughter]
Tellez: So they had all these stereotypes that they would—
Garcia: Yeah, oh yeah. But they were friendly, though. They were very nice; I could not complain. You complain more now than you [did] back then. Because I had— When I got out of the service and I went to work at a bank, I got the job because I had connections from the military. But then, at that time, they were very friendly. Yeah. And I was a comic. They used to, like the Southerners, they would talk and I would come in and say, talk to them like [in a southern accent], ―Awlright girls, now where did yawl run off to?‖ [laughter]. But as I said, I was the only Latina in that group, all through basic. I was— And a sergeant one time asked me if I felt [like] an outsider because there was no one of my race there. I said—and I always remembered—I always said, ―How can I be an outsider when I’m an American more than they are?‖ I used to tell them, ―Because my father was part Indian.‖ So, I told them, I said, ―I’m more American than [you] are!‖ [laughter]
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Tellez: Good for you! Well, now, your training, was it different very much for the women than it was for the men?
Garcia: I really don’t know, because we had to learn— I had to learn myself to keep my right foot and my left foot. [laughter] And they taught us a lot about military history. We had classes on that, you know. We could— We had to get up at five thirty and be ready to roll; and, oh God, we had breakfast, and they would tell us, ―Now eat what you get, don’t leave anything on the plate.‖ Which I could understand. Later on, I thought to myself, ―Well how do I know what I want?‖ You know. I was used to having just coffee and a tortilla, you know, because we were very poor. So, there I had— I could have toast, and I could put butter on it, and I could put jelly on it [laughter]. And we used to have— I used to get one piece of toast, and I think I would put everything they were supposed to on it. But I only had one, because they warned us about gaining weight, you know. But they were very nice. I cannot complain about being treated bad in basic, no. In fact, I was treated very nice. They were very considerate of everything, and I got a kick out of every sergeant, both male and female. They would say to me, ―Now did you understand the rules and everything; did you understand what they were saying?‖ I said, ―Yes, sir, yes, sir,‖ which I did, you know. At home we got to talk in English because a brother of mine went into the Marines and when he called mother, the operator told him not to speak Spanish, so from then on, Mother and everybody in that house—the slightest little thing— Sometimes they had to stop and think what they were gonna say, you know. But they— And Mother got her book out to learn English and all. See, my mother used to teach the Constitution of the United States, but she would read it and translate it to whoever she was going to help, you know. But–
Tellez: You mean as in someone who’s being naturalized.
Garcia: Yeah. At that time, there was a lot of people being naturalized.
Tellez: Yes. So she would help the Spanish speakers then?
Garcia: Yeah. It was interesting to watch her read chapters of the Constitution. A I still today carry a little booklet. I don’t know if I still have [the original]. But anyway, you know, she would read it, translate it, and then study it in English, you know, because she wanted that person to know, but she also wanted to understand the English. So at home, we got to talk in—for everything—in English. It was interesting, though, because my father, he spoke English. But he would stop and think, and he would say in Spanish, he would say, ―Now, how do you say such and such in English,‖ and we would all get together and say it! [laughter] There was only three of us, but still—and Mother, you know. But, oh, I’m telling you, that was quite a family. We had to [speak] English. I enjoyed it. I mean—
Tellez: It sounds like it was a really fun family.
Garcia: In a way, it was. My mother was very serious, so was my father, but when it came to English, we always would say it in Spanish, and then we’d translate it, and then we’d wonder if we said the right thing. At least, they did. And, of course, I was very smart, [because] I had gone to school. [laughter]
Tellez: So you helped a lot.
Garcia: Yeah.
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Tellez: Okay, now when you finished up basic training— You said it was two and a half months, correct?
Garcia: Yeah.
Tellez: Okay, and where did you go after that?
Garcia: They started assigning us, and they send me to school there on the – at Fort Des Moines to learn how to type fast. Of course I typed, but I didn’t— And, boy, you should see some of these other women that were supposed to been secretaries. I never got that good.
Tellez: No? [laughter]
Garcia: No. [laughter]
Tellez: Okay, and then how long did you do that?
Garcia: Oh, for about, let’s see here—September, October— I got through in December. It was the December right after basic that I went to that school and it was through. It was about four weeks, I guess. See they weren’t in a rush, but they were, because they wanted to have the perfect squadron of women, you know?
Tellez: Yes. Okay, so then where did y’all go after that?
Garcia: Well, after that—well, they sent me to— No, wait a minute, it was Leavenworth, Kansas. [laughter] Not as a prisoner!
Tellez: Everybody thinks of [Leavenworth prison] when they hear ―Leavenworth!‖
[laughter]
Garcia: And we worked in keeping track of— At the time, there was a lot of ammunition there, and we used to record what went out, what came in, and so forth, you know.
Tellez: Okay, like inventory?
Garcia: Right. At that time, I learned a lot about ammunition, but don’t ask me today.
[laughter].
Tellez: I heard it’s completely different now, anyway. Okay. So now how long were you there?
Garcia: I was there, shall we say, about six months, because I wanted a job where I could do more than keep records, you know. So, they send me to Mitchel Field, New York. Yeah, it’s on Long Island, you know. There I— Since I knew all about records and so forth, I went into supply. I took over being the supply sergeant there for the squadron. And then, well I got tired of that after a year and asked if there was any other job I could do besides counting sheets, and counting bags, and counting, you know, everything that goes into the barracks. So, they— Oh, and then the sergeant said, ―They want volunteers for overseas.‖ I says, ―I’ll go!‖ [laughter]
MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 6
Tellez: To get out of the boredom!
Garcia: Yeah. So, then they sent me to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia. It was interesting; believe me. We learned— And they taught us how to roll pup tents, and sleep in pup tents, and let me tell you, I was scared, because I’m scared of bugs. [laughter] It was interesting, though, because of survival— Well, they call it today, ―survival training.‖
Tellez: Right. Now did you wonder why they were training you to do that?
Garcia: Yeah, well no, because they had told us that they wanted volunteers who may be sent overseas.
Tellez: Oh I see, okay. And you wanted to go overseas?
Garcia: Yeah.
Tellez: Oh okay, I thought you were gonna say you were afraid of that, but no you were afraid of the bugs.
[laughter]
Garcia: Yeah, but I knew it was training, and they told us it was to prepare us for overseas training, which was interesting, and also how to abandon ship. Oh that was really something. See, they had the ship, and they had the ropes on the side, and we would have exercise and we would have to run and be able to hold on and climb down into the smaller boats, the rowboats. It was interesting.
Tellez: Right, right. Now did they do that out at sea with the— Or, was it on land?
Garcia: No, no. It was a lake.
Tellez: Okay, so did the boat rock around?
Garcia: Oh gosh, yes, and I don’t how to swim. [laughter] I got lessons on how to swim, but believe you me, it’s [difficult]. I never did quite manage it.
Tellez: I would think you would have to have a lot of upper-body strength to—
Garcia: Well, yeah, I was strong. I mean, but I could, so I learned how to float. Oh, I got good at floating.
[laughter]
Tellez: And that was part of your survival [training]?
Garcia: Yeah, yeah.
Tellez: Okay. MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 7
Garcia: But we spent— Oh, I spent about six months. It was quite a long period there, training us. And, in the meantime, we had to do this, and had to do different things. We’d draw KP [kitchen police], and we had to learn, kitchen police, you know. And then, of course, we had to also— They taught us how to cook, you know.
Tellez: Oh, like out in the wilderness?
Garcia: Yes, like out in the wilderness, yes. And it was interesting. It wasn’t boring, believe me. Because everything we would learn, we had to make notation of it and be able [to do it], and then we would have about a week [to] submit what we wrote, [and] what we thought about it. And it would be discussed, and charts would be shown. It was quite a training, believe you me. So, then came the day they told us that we would be— We were shipping. Where we were going, they didn’t know where. Can you believe that they didn’t know where we were going?
Tellez: I don’t believe it. [laughter]
Garcia: Anyway, we ended up at Fort Dix, New Jersey. Is that in New Jersey? And there we went through another phase also of training, you know. And, oh, I got so tired eating out of a mess kit. And then having to wash it at the end of— You know, they had these big old kettles of hot water, and we would clean it in one and wash it in the other, then shake it. It was interesting, though. Anyway— Oh, and [we were] having to eat various types of food in case we were somewhere where we didn’t know where we were. And they started fitting us with gear—you know, hammocks and coats, and how to carry stuff on your back and so forth.
Tellez: Was it heavy?
Garcia: Yes! It was! I think the whole thing weighed fifty pounds. To me, that was heavy.
Tellez: Especially if you had to walk a long way
Garcia: Yeah, and oh did they teach us how to walk—I mean march. Yeah. But we were all volunteers. They reminded us anytime anybody griped— They would say, ―Remember, you all are volunteers. Nobody made you sign up!
Tellez: Now, did you guys find you sort of acquired some level of respect because ya’ll had volunteered to be in –
Garcia: Oh, yeah.
Tellez: Okay. Because it was an extraordinarily difficult job.
Garcia: No, but they were, the government was, very good to us, I mean they used the people that were in charge. I would have big-wheels come and inspect to see if they were training us right, and they said they wanted to learn about it too, and they said if we had any complaints, be sure it’s a legal complaint, and be sure you have the facts. So I was tired. That’s all I [had] to say all the time, but I kept on going. I wasn’t going to let up, you know. Then, as I said, they took us down there and then one day—of God, at the crack of dawn—we had to put all of our gear on and they got into these great big trucks, you know, and we ended up boarding a ship and it was crowded. It was crowded! There was a section for MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 8
us which was about a squadron of women—about fifty women, you know—and the rest were men. I mean thousands of men were on that ship. And I didn’t know how to swim, and I got seasick. I was miserable, to tell you the truth, but I wasn’t gonna say ―I’m miserable.‖ [laughter] I wanted to go. And then, half way over— It took us days to get over there to where we were going, which was— We were going to England, but I didn’t know where we were going. I knew we were crossing the Atlantic; we got that information. And all of a sudden, everything stopped. The ships that were around us, and our ship too. And they had complete silence. Engines and everything were down. So, I mean we— Like, for hours it seems— Well, see, they were afraid of the German submarines and there was a buzz, you know. Well it turn out, there was a school of whales going North [laughter] so everything had stopped.
Tellez: And did that kind of make you nervous when everything shut down like that?
Garcia: Well, I turned to God like nobody’s business. I kept asking God if I have to go I don’t want to drown, just let me be knocked out or something because I— The thought of drowning was horrible, but that’s why I kept saying I’ll jump ship and get killed.
Tellez: Yeah, it’s understandable. Okay now, how long was your trip?
Garcia: I think it took us about ten days. Yeah, because we were going slow, and so often they would turn off the engines, and it seems to just cruise along, you know. It was a huge ship. Oh, God!
Tellez: So, I take it [the ship] wouldn’t be hard to miss if the Germans picked up on it.
Garcia: Yeah, yeah. I always— As I said, I turned to God. Man, I’ll tell you what. [laughter]
Tellez: Did you feel like a sitting duck in that big boat?
Garcia: Well, I didn’t feel like a sitting duck, I felt like I had walked into a jungle that I couldn’t get out of. That’s the way I felt at that time. Then, when we got closer to where we were going, they told us that we were landing. The name of the— It’s like a lake, not like a, like an inlet, you know. The body of water—
Tellez: Yeah, like a gulf, or a port
Garcia: A port, yeah, but the body of water is not connected to the Atlantic. You leave that and go through this.
Tellez: Oh, a canal.
Garcia: Yeah, and they call it the Filth of Clyde. It’s in Liverpool; the area was Liverpool. Well, at the crack of dawn, who could sleep? I’m telling you, they told us we would be leaving the ship at the crack of dawn. God, I didn’t even sleep. We put our bag [down] and just sat there, you know. And it was— They would load us into these trucks, and we rode. Oh, God, we rode! We were— We went— The name of it was— It’s between Manchester and Liverpool—a little town called ―Birkenwood.‖ That’s where we landed. That’s where we arrived. And it was a school that once had been a school of girls. Now they had converted [it] into a barracks so we could— There were houses there. And, of course, my first thought was we were [driving] on the wrong side of the street, but in England, they drive [on the] opposite [side of the road]! [laughter] And that used to get me like nobody’s business. And guess MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 9
what. It was a depot, so what did [was] we took records, we checked our stock, what came in, what went out, what was salvaged. I did that for about, oh— You see, I got to England in the fall of forty-three, then we endured D-Day—we heard about it. I mean we were told about it after it had happened. And then, of course, shortly after that, in about September, they asked for volunteers to go to France, because the war was still going on. [laughter] While we were in Birkenwood, we were allowed— We worked seven days, and then we were off three days. And the USO organization helped for us to go visit around the area, and even go to London. And in London, I had my first bomb scare. And let me tell you, that’s—
Tellez: Describe that.
Garcia: Well, how can I describe it? I just, I didn’t know— Why did God’s sen[d] all of this to us? Why are we here in this mess? And at the time, I remember wishing Hitler to be dropped dead. [laughter] You know?
Tellez: Well, you weren’t the only one! [laughter]
Garcia: Because here we had all of this. It was— I can’t really describe it. To me, it was just horrible. So, I never went back to London on a three day pass. But when they wanted volunteers to go to France and the war was still going on, oh I was ready! [laughter] And they flew us in, and, oh God, there were these big planes—they don’t have them anymore—big carrier planes, you know. And also, since I’d been working at a depot, I ended up at a munitions depot this time. [laughter] It was interesting. I mean, we kept records of that too, but from there we knew that once they left they were gone. But the government wanted to have an estimate of what went on that day, how many went out that day. How many came in and how many came out, you know. Let me tell you, the government really keeps records all the time of everything. So, and then— Oh, we were stationed twenty-nine miles northeast of Paris, and they told us that the name of the town was Col Pien, how you spell that I don’t know. [laughter] And so we were— Oh, and we were housed in a château, and the government had to make trenches for us out in back. They don’t believe in bathrooms. I mean in those days, a bathroom was a rarity.
Tellez: Well, what did they use, outhouses?
Garcia: Outhouses. That’s when I say they built trenches. I wish I had pictures of all that, but that to me was very interesting you know.
Tellez: We have some historical photographs in our bathroom of these buckets with big boards across the tops of them, and bare-butted guys sitting on [the holes cut in the board]. Did they have you [out in the open] like that, or did they [provide] a covering?
Garcia: Oh no, they had a cover for us. Oh, the government made very sure that we were well cared for. In fact, the men used to gripe because they said that we lived in a chateau, and we didn’t have to live in pup tents, and we had toilets! [laughter]
Jones: How did you shower and clean?
Garcia: Oh, the shower! We used to have— Two trucks would come every eight days, [and] would back up, you know. The one truck you got undressed. Don’t say, ―Turn around because I’m getting undressed.‖ No, no. I mean, it was a free for all—only women, you know. I’ll never forget, this one MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 10
lady said, ―Well, I haven’t seen anything that you have that I haven’t got!‖ [laughter] And then we would get into the other and there were sprays and we would stand under one and then they would turn the water on for five minutes and you were supposed to soap yourself and everything and then they would turn it off for five minutes. And then you [had] to be sure you rinsed in those five minutes.
Tellez: Oh yeah, if not you’re stuck [laughter]
Garcia: And that’s how we showered!
Tellez: Now, who brought the trucks? Were there any guys around?
Garcia: Oh yes. But I never saw any of them peeping or anything, you know. But soldiers were the ones that would bring them, yes.
Tellez: Now that must have been quite a change from the environment you grew up in, you know. Where girls were very sheltered and—
Garcia: Yeah, it was interesting. And every eight days they would come, and the day they would come of course we didn’t work that day. [laughter] We had to get ready for it! And then they brought more women in, more recruits in, so then they built a romani hut in the back of the chateau and some of us moved out because we were too crowded in that, so we moved out to the hut. At least there you had only one bed, not double-deckers.
Tellez: Now what kind of hut was it?
Garcia: Romani huts. It’s like a tent.
Tellez: Oh, okay.
Garcia: But it’s round, like so.
Tellez: Oh, okay. I know what you’re talking about. Okay.
Garcia: You still see them sometimes in some of the Army bases. They have them. They use them for training.
Tellez: Yes, I’ve seen pictures of those. So you only got to shower once every eight days?
Garcia: Yes!
Tellez: Wow.
Garcia: But they always had containers of hot water so we could— Our helmet— You could use our helmet for practically anything, you know, so we would get water in the helmet and go back to where we were and wash ourselves. And some of the girls got together and say you would bring your own helmet full of water and be using it and then they would go and get their helmet full and take your helmet for them, you know, we would help each other wash. MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 11
Tellez: Well, that’s good.
Garcia: Yeah, we did that quite a bit, because even though it was cool, at the same time, you felt dirty. Especially when you’re used to taking a shower every other day, or every day, here, you know. Oh and let me tell you, you learned a lot of things. Oh yeah. And, of course, we ate fairly well because they would— I think they were powdered eggs. We would have that for breakfast, and they would get bread from the economy, from the locals. Like in England, they would get bread from England and we would have bread. And in France, I loved those long loaves of bread, you know? They were so good! And, of course, they didn’t have any paper to wrap them in. [laughter] So anyway, you got seven loaves of bread and carried them back to the barracks and shared them. Of course, I don’t know how many germs we ate with them, but—
Tellez: I’ve seen pictures of people at the markets, especially little kids, running down the street with a big old loaf of bread. [laughter] and I was thinking the same thing. ―What about the germs!‖
Garcia: Yeah, what about the germs! Well, after awhile you get some, you try to be as clean as possible, but—
Tellez: You’re used to it.
Garcia: Yeah, yeah.
Tellez: I think we’re spoiled.
Garcia: And, it’s true; a lot of the girls got sick. Some of them had to be evacuated back to the states.
Tellez: What kind of illnesses did they get?
Garcia: Well, fever for one thing. They said it was fever, you know. And then one girl, I knew, had a very bad stomach [ache because of] something she had eaten. So she, in the height of the war she gets evacuated back, you know. But they— I cannot complain, really. They did what they could for us, you know. And in France, nobody reminded us that we were volunteers. Oh, we got the— They would take us out so we would be in practice on how to shoot. And they—tracers, that’s what they were—they’d put in the weapon. Tracers—you know, you fire and there’s a light, where it goes.
Tellez: Yes, wow. I didn’t know they had those that far back.
END SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE
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BEGIN SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE
Garcia: Washing the clothes, that was a little hard, at first, because we— You know, these big drums that the military have, well they would have to wash them out and clean them out. The men did all that. And then they would bring them to us and heat us a fire. They built a fire under there, you know, with the water in it. And we would have to be aware of not spilling anything, you know, because everything was rationed. I mean, you couldn’t water the lawn. MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 12
Tellez: Yes, you couldn’t waste anything.
Garcia: Nothing. And so we— Well, being as I never had much money, I used to tell the girls, ―Okay, right after pay day I will polish your shoes for 25 cents.‖ And I was good at ironing. Oh, and then when we washed our shirts and stuff like that, of course—the skirts, or our fatigues that we wore at that time. I think they were washed I about once every two weeks, because we couldn’t waste much water, you know. And the soap that we had were these big brown bars of soap.
Tellez: Big, huge ones. I’ve seen those.
Garcia: Yeah, well that’s what we used. And of course we had to share it. We couldn’t just keep that one bar for ourselves, no. If you were washing a shirt, wash the collar because that’s where you get, you know, mostly dirty. And your hair, we used to have— They told us to brush it every day. And at that time they required that we have short hair. So we would help each other washing our hair because it— If you get that container full of water, the helmet full of water, you would soap first while someone else got another container, another helmet, then you would rinse your hair. So, Heaven help you if you didn’t get it rinsed completely.
Tellez: Yeah, did that soap have a lot of detergent in it? Was it kind of harsh?
Garcia: Yes, it was harsh, yeah. And then some of these women that were used to using all of these kinds of creams, and what have you, [laughter] they would get packages from home. You know, that Ponds?
Tellez: Yes! In the little tub with the scrubber?
Garcia: Yes, well they would get a lot of it. I mean, because they would request a family to send them some, you know. And so, that’s how we washed our faces, believe me. Because we would use that cream and then we would wipe it out with paper or whatever we could get hold of—you know, rags and what have you—nothing fancy. [laughter]
Tellez: Wow.
Garcia: I mean it was really roughing it, believe me.
Tellez: Now what did ya’ll do for fun?
Garcia: Well, we had very little fun in those days. It was— The USO would probably come and they would give us a show and, but if you weren’t working you would be able to go out in the field, you know. But if you were working you didn’t get to see them, no. And, you know, in Trompian, this castle, that some King made for his Queen, but we would have a lot of tours through those and they would explain all about history. I used to be a history buff but then. During that time I became more interested in it because whenever I had time off I would go to the castle and see. It was really— The thing that amused me— I was very embarrassed at the time, because I asked a question, because one time when they were showing us the castle telling us about— They were huge. Those castles were huge. They were showing us this and that and what have you, and they said, ―You know, in the eighteenth century there was no such thing as the bathroom,‖ you know, stuff like that, [laughter] and this one girl says, ―I gotta go, I gotta go,‖ she kept saying. And I said, ―Pardon me ma’am,‖—it was one MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 13
of those USO girls, you know—―Pardon me ma’am,‖ I said, ―By the way, isn’t there a twentieth century around here?‖ And everybody turned around, [laughter] and even the guy kept trying to hold his breath, you know. And then she came back close to me she says ―I can take you to one.‖ And I says, ―No, it’s not for me, it’s for her.‖ And I pointed to the other girl. So she says, ―Well, we women are a little bit different than men. We can’t go behind the bushes, but I’ll find [a toilet].‖ So she found one, but it was a—it had a hole in it, and it slide out, so whatever you did for your business, you’d have to have enough urine to slide whatever else was in there out. [laughter]
Tellez: Oh, because there was like a little chute that—
Garcia: Yeah.
Tellez: Now was that original? That was there back in the days when they built the castle?
Garcia: Yes!
Tellez: Wow! So I guess they’d have servants come and flush it out.
Garcia: Flush it out, yeah. And then— But it was very interesting, because we got to, I think it was the third floor, and one girl peeked into a room, and it was one of those, you know. And she called the guy and she says, ―Is this where they did their business?‖ [laughter]
Tellez: Oh man!
Garcia: It was interesting because she came— And she was French and English, the girl that was a guide, you know.
Tellez: The USO girl.
Garcia: Yeah, oh yeah. The USO girl. And she says, ―Yes‖—how did she say—you know how kids say you poo poo? [laughter] She said, ―You poo poo, and you wee wee, and wheesh!‖
Tellez: Oh, that’s funny! [laughter]
Garcia: Those are things that make you laugh today, you know. It helped to make us laugh, then, because everything was so dreary. You’d hear the bombs going off and you’d hear all the noises, but, thank God, not where we were.
Tellez: But you could hear it in the distance?
Garcia: Yeah, in the distance. And the one thing that did worry me a lot was the fact that at that time there were Germans dressed as Americans, and they were parachuting into the area that we were, not close by, but you know, where the depot was, because they wanted to blow the depot. So anybody that would parachute, the Americans were ready. They got them. [laughter]
Tellez: Oh, good. MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 14
Garcia: Oh let me tell you, we Americans, we’re very strong on defending ourselves and our nation—our name. You know, because I remember a lot of the boys would say, ―We’ll never let this happen in America.‖ And I used to pray that it never [would].
Tellez: Because it was so horrible for the civilians.
Garcia: Yeah, it was. It’s indescribable to me because after the war— Oh, one thing I’ll never forget, when the peace treaty was signed, they took us in trucks to see the crowds of New York, I mean of Paris. Oh, incidentally, in between, whenever we had a chance, we would go to a different castle around Paris, and Paris itself, and Paris has quite a history you know. One girl wanted to know where the guillotine was, and, no, they took that down. [laughter] And so they wanted to— At that time, they liked the Americans a lot, so they wanted us to go. And they used to be able to sit at those little cafes, you know. It was interesting. And, of course, I went to— What’s that on the hill—that church up there? You had to walk up there. I mean, there were no roads. I mean there were, but you couldn’t get a car up there—a truck up there.
Tellez: Was it really, really far?
Garcia: Well, it would be like we’re here and the church would be where Willford Hall is [about five miles]. And we had to walk to get to it. It’s beautiful, but you know thank God they never did bomb. The only time there was any bombing done was in Italy. Hitler ordered that monastery to be bombed. And General Eisenhower didn’t want us to get up there—I mean the men, American men. But other than that, they— Somehow they respected Paris, but I understand that when the Germans were there and they were losing the war, they almost blew all of Paris down—that they wanted to do that. I mean, that’s what the guys said.
Tellez: Yeah.
Garcia: But I mean, it was interesting and sad at the same time.
Jones: Did you see casualties?
Tellez: I was just going to ask that.
Garcia: Yes.
Jones: Of what? Describe to her some of it.
Tellez: Yes, what did you see? That’s real important.
Garcia: Well, I can’t say much, because by the time they came through where we were they were all bandaged up and ready to be shipped to one of our areas where they were handling them to be flown back to the states. But the casualties right up where they got shot, no. I never did see any of those. I only saw when they were bandaged and all.
Tellez: Yes. Did you work with any of them, helping any of them?
Garcia: No. Only the nurses and the doctors [did that]. MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 15
Tellez: Did you see a lot of them? Because there were a lot of casualties, so, I mean, were you surprised at the amount?
Garcia: Yes. And angry that the Germans had killed them or hurt them. They were hurt, a lot of them. And they were getting ready, being ready to be loaded onto this truck so they could be loaded onto the planes. The government takes good care of all casualties. I don’t believe we can complain about that.
Tellez: Did you write home about these things?
Garcia: No, you weren’t allowed.
Tellez: Oh, you weren’t?
Garcia: No, censored. We were censored.
Tellez: Wow. Now, what about before when you were in the survival training.
Garcia: No, you couldn’t write about that. No.
Tellez: Wow.
Garcia: No, it was heavily censored, everything was. Right after basic, after school and from basic, you know, you were told that we didn’t want to worry the folks at home, they would say. You know, so, we were trained, ―because it’s survival, but not because you’re going to get hurt, you know,‖ they would say.
Tellez: Did you believe that?
Garcia: [laughter] No, no. Not after I crossed the ocean.
Tellez: But prior to that did you, or did you have this uneasy feeling that there was something they weren’t telling you?
Garcia: Well, yeah. I always felt that way. And then, here in the states before we shipped out, they were censoring our mail. I guess they were in training. And so, from Europe, you could send a cable home saying you’re fine, but you cannot send a cable saying you got hurt or anything, no.
Tellez: Wow, so families wouldn’t even know until you got home then.
Garcia: Yeah, until you got home. It’s, well it’s something we didn’t talk about much, you know. Once they told you that, you remember you don’t want to worry the folks at home, you know. They brainwashed you, and you didn’t. I mean you would write and say, ―Oh, I worked all day,‖ or, ―I finally did my laundry,‖ or, you know, stuff like that.
Tellez: So your family at home probably thought you were just bored and there wasn’t really anything happening.
Garcia: Yeah. MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 16
Tellez: Now did you tell your parents when you came back home about your experiences?
Garcia: I told mother part, partly, not much. I didn’t talk about it. I went through one experience that I used to have nightmares about, you know. One bombing, we got all the noise and everything and I thought they were gonna hit us, you know. And that’s the one time that I was very, very scared. And I used to have nightmares about that. And one time, when I was home, I yelled real loud, Mother said, and I crawled under the bed and I couldn’t fit under the bed! [laughter]
Tellez: Now were you still asleep at that point or had—
Garcia: Yeah
Tellez: And your mother came in and saw you?
Garcia: Yeah, yeah.
Tellez: And how did that affect your mother?
Garcia: Well, mother was a very cold woman, you know. She says what you get into is because you want to, not because you have to. That was her attitude of things, you know.
Tellez: Was she kind of bitter that you left?
Garcia: I think in a way, yes. I think in a way, because I would get, if I got a letter returned from the ones I wrote, they would just say we got your letter, we’re glad you’re doing fine, and since you like history, you’ll have plenty in Europe. Which is true! I spent eight years off and on— No, in England I spent about a year, [and] in France, about a year. And then, when the war was over, then I came home. I went back to Europe, and I spent eight years in Germany. Because every thirty days—every year I would get thirty days leave—I would come home, visit the family, and go back and start another tour.
Tellez: So how long did you stay in the military?
Garcia: Twenty years and three months, I think it was.
Tellez: Wow. You did like it!.
Garcia: Yes
Tellez: So you retired?
Garcia: Yes, I retired at Randolph. Let me tell you, that was the best assignment I ever had. I was in—well, it’s a fancy word for supply—procurement. [laughter] And my boss was the leader in initiating the T-38s in Randolph. So I got to learn all about it. He was very nice. He taught me what part [goes] here, what part [goes] there, of the aircraft, [and] what have you. He would show me the blueprints. And he says, ―Now, when we say we need this part, you’ll know exactly were it’s going to go.‖ You know? Oh, yeah, I had a wonderful boss.
Tellez: And you enjoyed learning about those things, I take it. MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 17
Garcia: Oh yeah! Even today, I have a thirsty mind.
Jones: Yes you do. Trinidad, what did you sing?
Garcia: Oh, singing— Oh, God.
Tellez: Oh, you sang!
Garcia: I used to. Well, after the war was over, and they had— Remember how the Russians had cornered Berlin? And they wouldn’t let anybody go over land? They formed what they called the airlift varieties—the USO . And so we got people from the troops. And there was just two or three of us who could carry a tune, and dance on the table. [laughter]
Tellez: Oh, so that’s where the little story about dancing on the tables came from!
Jones: Where were you then?
Garcia: Well, I was stationed in Weispoten, but we visited nearly all the areas. See, we had a base in England, a base in France, and a base in Italy, that we would pick up supplies from, and fly them into Berlin. Well, we visited all those areas. And we would sing and dance, you know. It’s just to have a great time.
Tellez: Now, did y’all drink any booze?
Garcia: Oh, yes! I learned all about champagne there.
Tellez: Oh, did you, now!
Garcia: I always like to [call it] fermented grape juice. In fact, when I was stationed in Visboten, I became a very good friend of one of the officers that Hinkell winery. His son was working for the Americans. And [the son] introduced me to his father and mother—Heir Homen, and Frau Homen, you know. And they took a liking to me, because I wasn’t snotty or anything like that, I was just me. And whenever I could get anything from the comMs.ary or the base exchange, I would take [it to] them. They loved chocolate! Oh, his mother loved chocolate. So I used to buy chocolate and take it to them. So, they told me they would take me on a tour [of their] winery. [They asked,] would I wanna take my boss and the others that worked with me. And I said, ―sure!‖ So, I got to see how champagne was made. So, I loved, especially what’s called Hinkell Trocken. It’s not too bitter, not too sweet.
Tellez: And not too sour?
Garcia: No.
Tellez: Oh, that sounds wonderful.
Garcia: It was good.
Tellez: It sounds like you really took a liking to it. MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 18
Garcia: Oh, yes! Let me tell you, you can really— especially when you’re eating and toasting, you know.
Tellez: When it’s sociable.
Garcia: Yes. It’s something that I— Even to this day, I could— Ooh! [laughter]
Jones: Trinidad, that was good times. What about bad times, when you were there? Were any of the ladies mistreated?
Garcia: No, I wouldn’t say they were mistreated, no. In those days, men more or less respected women, because we were volunteers, and their bosses would remind them that if anybody did anything to us they would pay for it. Oh yeah!
Tellez: They put the heat on them.
Garcia: Oh, yeah. They were very strict on that.
Tellez: Now what happened if there was any hanky-panky?
Garcia: Well, there were, shall we say, in every crate of apples, there’s always a rotten apple. And they would weed em out. They would ship em back to the states, and discharge them.
Tellez: Just the women, or the men also?
Garcia: No, the men were sent to the front, and the women were sent home.
Tellez: Wow. So that was kind of standard procedure then?
Garcia: Yeah.
Tellez: In that case, it would be better to be the woman.
Garcia: So they were very nice fellas. And a lot of them would say to you, ―Write my wife—I’ll give you her name—and tell her I’m being a good boy. I never did, though. Especially, I have a— like ―Trinidad Garcia,‖ well that’s male and female. You know, [it] could be a man’s name, it could be a woman’s name. Just like Guadalupe, you know. And they would say, ―Just sign your name Trinidad Garcia, when you…‖ And I said, ―No, thank you. They’ll know; don’t worry.‖
Tellez: They’ll know, the writing’s prettier. [laughter] What was your rank when you retired?
Garcia: Master Sergeant—Air Force.
Tellez: Because it converted over [from the Army Air Corp].
Garcia: When I came back from Europe, I had a tour here at Lackland, and I made Master here, in 1952. Yeah. It was really something. I joined in 1942, I made Master in 1952, and I retired in 1962. MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 19
Tellez: Wow. That’s the year I was born. How old are you?
[laughter]
Garcia: I’ll be eighty-eight [on May 31, 2008].
Tellez: Okay, this is what I’m going to finish off with. How do you stay so young? You’re very youthful.
Garcia: Hoo-hoo! Well, shall we say, I have a glass of fermented grape juice with my dinner.
[laughter]
Tellez: So do I, but it’s not working for me.
Jones: [Jones addresses Garcia.] And-- What else do you do?
Garcia: I work, I volunteer, I keep busy. I keep my mind busy, cause to me it’s— I don’t like to sit at home. I hate housework!
Tellez: You seem too adventurous for that.
Garcia: Yeah. I’d rather be pushing a pencil, or checking papers or something than doing anything domestic.
Tellez: You strike me [as the type who was] never, ever that way. When you were a child were you always adventurous like that? Cause you seem like you were feisty.
Garcia: Yeah, I was— I had to do a lot of reading when I was young, cause Mother— That’s the way we were punished, by making us read. And of course, if you were really bad, like talking back about anything, you’d be seated in the corner and told to say the rosary about two or three times. And that’s the longest rosary!
[laughter]
Jones: Miss Trinidad, your mom was a teacher, right?
Garcia: Yes, she was a teacher. She taught Spanish, French, and English. But she spoke very broken English, and very broken French, you know. She was a graduate— I don’t know if you’ve heard of the school in [inaudible], the Saltillo? That’s in Saltillo, you know. It’s a famous school for women in Mexico.
Tellez: Did [your parents] immigrate here? Were they from Mexico?
Garcia: Yes. They immigrated during the Mexican Revolution. See, my grandfather was a cavalry officer in the federal army in Mexico. And he had to get out or get killed.
Tellez: Yes. A lot of people had to move. MS 315. Veterans History Project Garcia - 20
Garcia: Yeah.
Tellez: Well, I think we’re going to stop here, because I promised you [to keep it within two hours]. I thank you very much, Ms. Garcia. It’s been a pleasure, and you’ve done an excellent job. Thank you for your time.